I would not go so far as some who would insist that a Hindu is not the person to ask about Hinduism, as Harvard professor Roman Jakobson notoriously objected to Nabokov's bid for chairmanship of the Russian literature department: "I do respect very much the elephant, but would you give him the chair of zoology?"When Professor Doniger says she "would not go so far...", what she is implying ( without explicitly stating, as is common for people of a certain political color ), is that a Hindu is naturally at a disadvantage as regards making an academic study of Hinduism.
In itself, this statement seems innocuous enough; after all, wouldn't a Hindu's belief color his/her perspective of the religion? However, that begs an analogous question : Professor Doniger has written so much about Hindu attitude towards women, scrounging ancient texts to relate to a "problematic Hindu male attitude to women", the Valentine's day violence in India and what not ( try doing that with Koran and Islamist extremism, please ). Wouldn't being a woman stand in her way to cultivating objective scholarship on problems faced by women ^{footnote 2} ?
On the contrary, most of western academia considers women as better qualified than men to write about womens' issues.
I think being a woman puts you at an advantage in some respects and at a disadvantage in some others as far as the issue of conducting womens' studies is concerned. On one hand women are more likely to introduce gynocentrism into the picture and are less likely to be detached while writing about discrimination against women, and on the other they can better relate to the problems faced by fellow-women.
Similarly, a Hindu is likely to go softer on the defects in Hindu society and might have a less detached perspective on many of the topics, but at the same time can better relate to the theistic perspective from which Hindu religious texts were written.
And the hypocrisy of western academia lies in selectively marshalling benefits of doubt in the manner that suits their tastes - not only denying Hindus an encouragement analogous to what women get in the context of womens' studies, but also actively discrediting their potential in the field of Hindu studies.
Footnote 1 : Professor Cowen, in the post linked above, tries to be non-committal and appear unbiased by using words like "noteworthy" to describe the book, and qualifying his link to criticisms of Professor Doniger with "some of it from fundamentalist Hindus". Somehow such a style of writing strikes me as desperately trying to come across as neutral, while at the same time generating subconscious biases in favor of his position. I can't argue this position more rigorously, though.
Footnote 2 : ( especially with all the wonderful credibility she has amassed by writing about Sarah Palin, that "Her greatest hypocrisy is in her pretense that she is a woman." - the point here is not that she is opposed to Palin or that she considers Palin stupid/dangerous, but that she seems to suffer from screwed up convictions on gender issues, to the point of claiming that Palin is not a woman. )
Anonymous
May 17 2009, 05:48:16 UTC 3 years ago
Check out these links for criticism on Doniger, etc
http://ia301526.us.archive.org/0/items/Hor go to http://www.hinduismtoday.com/hpi/2009/5/1
and click on the link at the very end. ("...clicking here")
Prabhu
May 18 2009, 15:14:08 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Check out these links for criticism on Doniger, etc
Perhaps such representations might have been originally due to 19th century historians many of whom had racist attitudes, and that must have set the mood in which study of Hinduism was approached.Was away, and hence the delay in reply.
Anonymous
May 19 2009, 02:16:57 UTC 3 years ago
ahimsa and Indian culture
Wasn't sure if I should leave this comment here or in the vegetarian post - feel free to delete/move if you think it doesn't belong here.I came across this link - https://community.hsus.org/humane/events/d
There's validation of Hindutva right there, but of course, it's done in a PC + secular manner. And we come to the buffet system of religion(s) - picking and choosing one item that is in line with their agenda.
-kaffir
May 19 2009, 14:14:08 UTC 3 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
Good that you posted it here, for I don't look back at my old posts after some time, nor do I know when the next vegetarian post will come.True, most Indian communities might be non-vegetarian, but still that doesn't contradict recognizing the virtues of vegetarianism. Consider the bhIShma-yudhiShThira-saMvAda of mahAbhArata, for instance. When bhIShma tells yudhiShThira that ancestors are pleased with meat offerings, the latter asks about ahiMsA. And bhIShma starts explaining the virtues of not eating meat, without any reference to whether this contradicts what he had talked about meat offerings to ancestors.
I think the point is that our religion doesn't view everything as a "do" or "don't". A brAhmaNa is expected to hold onto vegetarianism, and as for others - it is a good ideal while not necessarily mandatory. This is perhaps as practical as it can get. Buddhism spread to so many other countries, but in none of them do we see such a strong tradition of vegetarianism as in India.
Of course, that said, what explains the link you gave me is in all likelihood what you said :
And we come to the buffet system of religion(s) - picking and choosing one item that is in line with their agenda.
Very well put.
Anonymous
May 19 2009, 14:59:25 UTC 3 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
Moo...http://www.cowprotection.com/video.html
Anyway, what do you think of the argument that we were better before?
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/20
Quote
Vegetarianism was for thousands of years a principle of health and environmental ethics throughout India. Though Muslim and Christian colonization radically undermined and eroded this ideal, it remains to this day a cardinal ethic of Hindu thought and practice. A subtle sense of guilt persists among Hindus who eat meat, and even they will abstain at special times. For India's ancient thinkers, life is seen as the very stuff of the Divine, an emanation of the Source and part of a cosmic continuum. They further hold that each life form, even water and trees, possesses consciousness and energy. Nonviolence, ahimsa, the primary basis of vegetarianism, has long been central to the religious traditions of India—especially Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. Religion in India has consistently upheld the sanctity of life, whether human or animal.
Unquote
May 19 2009, 16:57:06 UTC 3 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
First lalgudi video, now cow protection video :-( You very well know I can't watch videos from the computers in my office, so it would be nice if you could make a statement or two about what they do.I don't know whether we were better in, say 7th century AD than 19th century AD or not, one needs more data for that. Many westernized brahmins starting to eat meat etc. migth have made the situation worse during twentieth century. Moreover as I said in my latest post, we seem to be getting worse.
Anonymous
May 19 2009, 17:48:41 UTC 3 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
There is this retired Indian-born engineer in Pennsylvania US whose has made it his retirement job to take care of cows in a 42 acre sanctuary, cows that otherwise would have been slaughtered. The movie has a bunch of other Hindus going to his farm and talking with him, etc. on the whys, etc.Prabhu
May 19 2009, 18:42:45 UTC 3 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
Cool. There are such organizations already in India. In Mysore there was this organization - Pinjarapole society or so - that would buy cows so that they won't be sent to Kerala to slaughter ( the slaughter being legal in Kerala ). Nice to know this happens in US too. ISKCON guy?Anonymous
May 20 2009, 06:23:29 UTC 3 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
I think he is smartha; got the site athttp://www.srikanchimahaswami100.org/kan
where it says he (Sankar Shastri) was inspired by the Kanchi Paramacharya and has named his sanctuary as Lakshmi Cow Sanctuary in honor of Ramana Maharshi's favourite cow.
Prabhu
Anonymous
May 19 2009, 19:45:57 UTC 3 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
"Anyway, what do you think of the argument that we were better before?"I don't know if we were better before (depends on how we define 'better' and what yardsticks we use), but one thing is certain - the current method of meat production in large feedlots where
a. animals don't even get to move,
b. are fed grains to fatten them up quickly instead of grass (their natural diet),
c. are given antibiotics and all kinds of medicines, and
d. there are lagoons of animal shit with no solution on how to dispose of them,
is not only unhealthy for the animals and us, but also for the planet, and is not sustainable in the long run.
-kaffir
Anonymous
May 19 2009, 20:43:32 UTC 3 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
I see. Has anyone heard of a huge beef-producing factory coming up recently in Hyderabad, apparently to serve the Muslim demand and funded by some agency in Saudi Arabia? I was told this by someone else last year, but did not verify.See. The cow is held sacred, as 'second-mother', by Hindus. Now slowly and surely, we are numbed out of our sentiments that it has become more and more normal in Indian psyche to have them on processing chambers.
Prabhu
May 21 2009, 15:42:08 UTC 3 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
No, I haven't heard about it. Somehow I thought cow slaughter was legal only in Kerala and West Bengal?Anonymous
July 3 2009, 07:06:55 UTC 2 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
>>>I wonder which communities are included in that Indian culture that subscribe to ahimsa. :)I am not sure about the meaning of the statement but if it means that you are not sure of the communities that subscribe to Ahimsa then you need to take a look at Jain community for one. Some even do not eat roots because it kills the plant.
Look at Jat, Mali, Vishnoi, Brahaman, Baniya communities in Rajasthan, most part of UP, MP etc. They believe in Ahimsa. Come to think of it, a large number of communities in Rajasthan are vegetarian.
July 3 2009, 14:53:08 UTC 2 years ago
Re: ahimsa and Indian culture
I am afraid you are misinterpreting the context. Kaffir was talking about the views of the lefty-type people behind the link he gave.June 15 2009, 15:53:54 UTC 2 years ago
an outsider's view
>> On the contrary, most of western academia considers women as better qualified than men to write about womens' issues.Well, may be.
But that argument, even if considered as a FACT, in and of itself, doesn't necessarily mean that 'any person who belongs to group X' is better qualified to analyze group X.
I am not sure whether you're objecting to the essence of that "would not go as far" statement, or that "elephant on the chair" statement... Or may be just grinding an axe with Doniger...
I personally enjoy (not necessarily *believe* everything from) an outsider's view without trying to evaluate whether it's more/less "authentic" than an insider's view.
June 15 2009, 20:50:04 UTC 2 years ago
Re: an outsider's view
doesn't necessarily mean that 'any person who belongs to group X' is better qualified to analyze group X.Is that what I said? I clearly stated in the post that :
Similarly, a Hindu is likely to go softer on the defects in Hindu society and might have a less detached perspective on many of the topics, but at the same time can better relate to the theistic perspective from which Hindu religious texts were written
i.e., I said that a being a Hindu is advantageous in some respects and disadvantageous in some others. What is it about this statement that bothers you?
I am not sure whether you're objecting to the essence of that "would not go as far" statement, or that "elephant on the chair" statement... Or may be just grinding an axe with Doniger...
I have articulated quite precisely in the post as to what *exactly* I object to. It seems, rather, that you are just making conclusions about the post without reading it.
June 15 2009, 21:25:28 UTC 2 years ago
Re: an outsider's view
I surely read you post before commenting, but I wasn't very clear what you were trying to say/prove.
My bad!
June 16 2009, 15:37:53 UTC 2 years ago
Re: an outsider's view
Read the paragraphs starting with "When Professor Doniger says...", and "And the hypocrisy of..."; I think they are pretty explicit statements.