kupamanduka ([info]kupamanduka) wrote,
@ 2009-04-12 18:17:00
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Feel more for fellow-religionists, oh Hindus
Okay, my resistance has broken down and here I post. I thank commenter kaffir for various kind words he has made on various occasions.

While Jaiarjun's blog is of the kind I avoid like plague, a post at Acorn led me to a "Q&A with Alice Albinia" that was featured there, and the following passage shook me up :
Question : What were your initial impressions of Pakistan?

The thing that took me a long time to come to terms with was the great religiosity of Pakistan – I had never really encountered anything like that, even though I grew up in a religious Christian family. As I mention in the book, in Pakistan almost every utterance seems to be punctuated by a holy expression – even when people are simply going about their mundane, worldly tasks.

I think this showy religiousness probably came in at the time of Zia. At any rate, it was a great contrast to my experience of India, where I hardly knew anyone who was so religious. [link]

Showy or not, religion gives you strength. It leads you beyond showiness, and helps foster a culture of genuine religiosity. Even most irreligious people tend to respect the deeply religious. The present strength of Islam certainly has a lot to do with the deep faith Muslims have.

Deep faith naturally results in solidarity with fellow-religionists. Don't you see how Palestine pains Muslims so much but not Darfur? This is not a bad trait by any means. Having that extra love for fellow-religionists is only like having that extra love for one's own father or mother or beloved. If you close your gate to that love in the name of "equal vision", without actually developing any kind of universal love, you are only constricting your path towards genuine equal vision. It is analogous to treating father or mother as an outsider. Maya binds us, but also provides the means out of it.

Here is a quote from Swami Vivekananda that a friend recently sent me :
"Then and then alone you are a Hindu when the very name sends through you
a galvanic shock of strength. Then and then alone you are a Hindu when
every man who bears the name, from any country, speaking our language or
any other language, becomes at once the nearest and dearest to you. Then
and then alone you are a Hindu when the distress of anyone bearing that
name comes to your heart and makes you feel as if your own son were in
distress. Then and then alone you are a Hindu when you will be ready to
bear everything for them."[link]



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[info]doubtinggaurav [blogspot.com]
2009-04-13 01:15 am UTC (link)
Okay, my resistance has broken down and here I post


And world is a better place for that, O wise frog :-)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kupamanduka
2009-04-13 01:00 pm UTC (link)
That scares me. This tone of yours usually manifests itself when you are at your sarcastic best, when you tease others' irony detection mechanisms. :-)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2009-04-13 07:44 am UTC (link)

I am surprised that you seem to be sympathetic to the ummah concept of Islam. Most non muslims dislike because of the "extra -territorial"
implications.
Muslims use assalamu alaikum whilte greeting each other and often use Mashallah as an adjective " he got good marks Mashallah in the exam and alhamdullilah like Bless you when anyone sneezes.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kupamanduka
2009-04-13 09:10 pm UTC (link)
I don't think feeling for Muslims from other places necessarily contradict patriotism. It is Indian, and not Pakistani soldiers who risk their lives to protect Indian citizens. Obviously it is very unspiritual to be thankless for that or to bite the hand that feeds you.

Rather than blaming Muslims for identity consciousness we Hindus should strive to develop the identity consciousness ourselves. Faux-universalism is a bane of Hinduism.

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ummah
(Anonymous)
2009-04-14 03:43 am UTC (link)
But the concept of ummah extends only to Israel-Palestine issue (and maybe one or two others, and not all), since that's so hyped up in the media. I haven't read any Muslim invoking ummah when Saddam was killing Muslims, or when Shias and Sunnis kill each other.

Besides, charity starts at home. The concept of universal brotherhood is good in theory, but in practice, we can start by taking care of fellow-Hindus in India. It's the equivalent of 'think globally, act locally'. :)
-kaffir

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: ummah
[info]kupamanduka
2009-04-15 01:05 pm UTC (link)
Exactly. If you take out liberal media, it isn't clear if ummah will exist anymore.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2009-04-17 07:46 am UTC (link)
Having that bit of extra-love for your fellow religionists is NOT like loving your father or mother or anyone else close/related to you. It is a question of how you define/perceive/wan't to define your identity. The average Hindu has done nothing for me, but i owe most of my life and identity to my parents. I am surprised you even make the analogy.

The love that Islamists have for each other does contradict the idea of equal vision and universal love - it is precisely this extra love that often makes them blind to the possibility of accepting the other person's pov with the logic of 'my mother, dunk or sober'.

The world is not binary, nor is every analogy valid. I may not have any extra love for my fellow Hindus just because they are Hindus, but I do feel this 'extra love' for my parents. And in spite of not having that extra bit of love I may still feel offended when the PM of my nation says things like minorities shave the first claim on this country's resources.

And you may invoke as many of Ravikiran's past arguments as you want, but the point remains that you lost the argument when you used Pakistan as an example. And the Vivekanada quote, which you may or may not completely believe in, is easily among the most illogical things the great man has said.

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(Anonymous)
2009-04-17 07:48 am UTC (link)
This is Ritwik, btw.

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[info]doubtinggaurav [blogspot.com]
2009-04-17 08:37 am UTC (link)
and Ritwik continues to be dick head.

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